High-Performance Web Hosting: InMotion Hosting

InMotion Hosting delivers high-performance web hosting and infrastructure solutions, including VPS, dedicated, bare metal, and managed cloud servers, designed for agencies, enterprises, and growing businesses. Backed by 25+ years of expertise, owned-and-operated infrastructure, and 24/7 expert support, InMotion Hosting helps organizations scale confidently with reliable performance, security, and hands-on service.

In this episode, we speak with Trey Faison, Director of Product at InMotion Hosting. We discuss the critical role of web hosting in business success, emphasizing how the right hosting environment impacts speed, reliability, SEO, and customer trust. Trey explains the differences between shared, VPS, and dedicated servers, and highlights the importance of managed hosting for security and support. We also explore the evolving landscape of AI in web hosting, the significance of human customer support, and the challenges of maintaining WordPress sites. The conversation underscores the value of investing in quality hosting to prevent potential issues and ensure business growth.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the SourceForge podcast. I'm your host, Bo Hamilton. Today I'm joined by Trey Faison, director of product at InMotion Hosting, a company that's been in the web hosting space since 2001 and now serves over 170,000 customers, helping with all of their web hosting related needs. Now, hosting is one of those things I think a lot of businesses don't really think about too terribly much until something really goes wrong. But it plays a much bigger role than simply keeping a website online. I think the right hosting environment can affect everything from speed and reliability to SEO and security, as well as, of course, affecting customer trust. You know, if something breaks and it stays broken for an extended period of time, it ruins the customer's trust, it hurts the business, and they're ultimately going to probably shop elsewhere. So it can affect how well a business can scale as it's as its site and applications become more demanding. It affects a lot of things for a business. And I think that's becoming uh even more important as companies rely on AI tools and automation and more data-heavy digital experiences in general. So we've got a lot to get into. We're going to talk about why hosting still matters here in 2026, what businesses often get wrong when choosing where their website should live, why human support still plays a role in this automated digital world we live in, and just how hosting needs are changing in this AI era. So we've got a lot to get into. Without further ado, let me bring in Trey Fazen. Trey, welcome to the podcast. Glad you could join us. Thank you, Bo.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

So let's just get right into it. I uh for people who hearing about Inmotion for the first time, perhaps, how would you describe what the company does?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So it's always a little hard to explain what hosting is sometimes if you're talking to someone who's not in this field. Usually I start pretty basic and say it's not domains. Um, it's not just domains. It's uh I usually get the question of, well, do you build a website? Sort of, but no. Um, you know, usually it's we provide the server, um, the networking, everything for your website to exist on, you know, your ph your physical assets so that you could be on the internet. Um but what in and that's basic hosting. What in Motion does though, um, we're considered a managed host. So what that means is on top of just making sure your site's on the internet, we make sure that you have uh the other infrastructure, including the support infrastructure for you know when things go wrong. So, you know, if you're in a situation and many of our customers are our businesses or agencies or what have you, where you know, maybe there was a security issue with your site or something, you know, you maybe you accidentally uh did something, or maybe someone else did. Um, we're there to walk you through uh what you need to uh get back to good. And you know, we have uh support staff and for years now helping you uh deal with any problems that you didn't expect. Because that's usually when you need a good host uh is when things went wrong, not necessarily when when everything's great.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Totally. Yeah. So the managed portion of of the hosting is really um uh where a lot of the value is, right? Where something something goes wrong, something breaks, uh, there's a security issue, like you were saying, um, businesses can can uh work with you to help kind of alleviate that. They're not left in the in the dark. Um, I can see the the value there. And um I uh thanks for breaking it down in uh simple terms. I I think it's also uh I I when I was doing my uh research on the company, um it was interesting to hear that you're it's in-motion hosting is still privately, it's been privately held since 2001. Is that still true?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yes, yes, and it's it's uh becoming a bigger and bigger thing in the industry, or at least uh more unique than it used to be. Um so the company was founded 25 years ago by Todd Robinson and Sunil Saxena. And um we our our anniversary is actually it's coming July. So what's unique about that is that uh Todd and Sunil uh have never taken outside, you know, money. Um there's no private equity or anything like that behind it. So why that matters is that um, and we're not a public company, so we don't have to worry about quarterly results. And when we're looking at our margins, we don't have to worry about, you know, some sort of report at the end of the year or or what have you, or an exit event uh in the case of private equity that you know that requires the margins to be not just profitable, but to also support maybe a debt load that um you know the other other companies might have. So what that means is that allows us to uh look at the success of the company in far long longer terms than your typical company. And, you know, when I joined, and I joined about 16 years ago, it was described to me uh by Todd and Sneal as you know, a customer service company that does hosting. And I think that's been true of my entire time here. And that's that's now starting to get pretty unique in in this industry.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, totally. That's that's pretty wild. Yeah, you think of most of your peers, it seems as brought, they've probably been bought, they've probably been sold and and kind of rolled up uh into some portfolio three times over by now. So yeah, it's really interesting. I just want to point that, point that out um for the for the listener. Um and 16 years is an impressive tenure. Um, I definitely want to ask you about your experience. I got some thought leadership questions for you towards the end of this uh interview. Um, but I want to get into uh continue to unpack some of the basics um and and and what it is in motion is doing. So I know most businesses kind of they think of their website as the thing their agency built, they never really think about the the actual like machine that it's running on. I think that there's kind of that disconnect there of the behind-the-scenes stuff. Um but that this the decision really ends up mattering a lot more than people expect for for some of the reasons you talked about and and I mentioned in the intro. Um, if I'm a business owner trying to figure out where my website should live, how how might you explain in-motion hosting and what they can provide in simple terms?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Sure. So I think about it uh, and I in terms of risk tolerance. So, you know, as you said, the our clients typically are agencies or um maybe WooCommerce stores or or or different sort of e-commerce stores. And you know, what that means is that on some level, there is revenue flowing through their site or their reputation is kind of on the line. Now, maybe it's because you know they're a designer developer and their clients need to be up. So if it's down, they're not uh in a great mood about that. So, you know, you want to make sure that you're negating the risk that that inherently comes with being on the internet. And then, you know, so what does that mean in terms of the price point? Or what does the functionality of the site uh require as well? So, you know, if you have a standard um maybe it's a coffee shop and it's a brochure website with the menu and the hours, and there's not much interactivity, uh, then you're probably fine on a shared server. Uh, shared server is where you share that server with uh maybe a couple hundred other customers. Um, it's relatively inexpensive. You can't necessarily do a heavy amount of customization, but for honestly, 95% of the use cases, it's it's totally fine. Um let's say you know you have a store and uh it started on a shared server, but it's becoming more successful. Um, so you need to do some customizations, maybe that you can't do unshared, or you just need a few more resources. Um so we would move you or you would be upgraded to a VPS. The VPS is a virtual private server which allows you to or allows us to carve up a larger server in in discrete units where you're separated from other customers in terms of what you can do with the operator system or the configurations and stuff like that. So you're still sort of sharing a server, but it's far more isolated uh than it would be on shared, and you have far more resources. And then let's say that store uh becomes very successful, and it's time to not share a server with uh other customers, and you need exclusive access to those resources. And that would be a dedicated server. You know, in my tenure here, I've seen people that I helped back uh in 2010 who started out on a shared server, and then you occasionally run into them in their, you know, or their account and they're on a on a on a dead and not even their first daddy. You know, maybe it's a a small on the on the cheaper end of the dedicated server, but as things grew for them, you know, they required more and more resources. So we've helped them along the way um and made sure that their needs are met in each stage of their growth. Um, you know, how you need to look at it is um, what are the resources that I'm using? How important is it to me for me to be up? And yeah, and what's my growth over time? Because the time to upgrade is usually not, you know, when you're when your site's down.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah. And which is when, yeah, when when businesses really start to pay close attention to kind of the the back end side of things. Um, why would you say so many businesses underestimate how important hosting is until until something goes wrong? Like is it just because is it because of this sort of lack of understanding of how everything works and and what goes into keeping the site running, or is it something else?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

I think it's a mix. I think um part of it is that there's complexity that's just tricky to explain. And, you know, if you haven't done it um then or or haven't seen it from the other side that that you're not aware that, you know, someone has to rack the servers and there has to be um it's not just uh, you know, uh networking, but uh a strong firewall or you know, things to prevent DDoSes and attacks like that. Um so there's just a lot uh to safeguard your site because like I said, you're you're public, you're on the internet. That's the nature of what needs to happen, which means there are many things that that might go wrong or where a bad actor might take advantage of something. So, you know, and our job is to protect you from that uh as best we can. So I think the reason people don't quite understand uh the hosting complexities is twofold. One, it's just the experience, but also I think you know, sometimes the hosting industry does a a not so great uh effort at explaining that you do get what you pay for. Um, that, you know, going for the cheapest $2 thing you might see uh might look great, but you know, when you need it, when when things are are rough, are you getting the support that that you require? And that's that's really you know hard to explain. Uh it's sort of like, you know, why do I need insurance? Well, if you've gotten burned, you definitely understand why you need insurance. And that's that's sort of where hosting is. Many of our customers, I would say the majority, are definitely on the their other businesses. And a lot of times they have a lot of you know experience in hosting. Um, so they're not necessarily surprised by those requirements. You know, whereas you might, if you have a hobbyist or someone who's just playing around, which we have plenty of those, and we're very happy to have them, but you know, they're they're on a on a cheaper plan and maybe they don't care about backups or you know, some sort of anti-malware or or some sort of situation like that. So, you know, we're hosting or our partners and our customers are people who also have been in this industry for a bit, and uh their site is as important to them as uptime is for us, and making sure that you know we are giving them the best deal, but the highest quality that we can give them because we understand that, you know, like us, it's extremely important for their site to be up.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, it's funny because uh it seems like a lot of times people pick hosting the way they pick like a Wi-Fi router or something, where it's like the cheapest box on the shelf is is the uh is the one they go with. And then they're all of a sudden surprised by when you know something, something goes wrong, a security blunder. Um, I want to uh get into some of the technical stuff now, like speed and uptime, which you mentioned, um, and is really quietly driving the stats that businesses pay most attention to, I would say. Things like revenue, search rankings, and whether people trust you is is uh enough to to type in like payment information like a credit card. I think those are all really important things um for websites, of course. Um, and you've been clearly doubling down on this. I saw that you uh in motion as has tripled the port speed on your dedicated servers without charging anyone extra. That's uh that's a big um uh a big perk. What role does performance play in business outcomes today? How does it affect things like you know, page speed, reliability, SEO, customer trust, those sorts of things?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, it works, it works sort of on two levels, I would say. Um one, there's just the human angle, right? Um when you go to a website, if something doesn't load, and it could be half a second, but it'll feel like an eternity, particularly if you're the owner of said website, right? Um, because you know it's not being responsive, and that doesn't really tell you or give you a good idea that this rest of the experience is going to be great. Um, so you want to make sure that it's as responsive as possible. Um now there's many ways that that could be affected. It could be the hardware, it could be, you know, the RAM, it could be uh the configuration of the site, it could be, you know, if you're on a shared environment, you know, are there other actors or or customers that are affecting your traffic? And our job is to make sure that doesn't happen, right? That that our customers uh can't affect each other negatively and that you know, that your your hardware is perfectly capable of running what needs to run uh and making sure that you know it's a zippy experience for you. The other aspect that people don't think about a lot is that Google and the other uh search engines rank you based off your performance, and and they're using that as a proxy, right? So what they're trying to determine is if your site should have good domain authority or you know, should it be recommended and where on the recommendation. Um, you know, now we're seeing AI overviews. So instead of the you know, list of 10 links for the search term, it might be just a recommendation. But either way, it's assessing your site and crawling your site constantly uh over time to sort of say, should I recommend this site? And it uses many, but there's like six different categories, uh probably more, but that that we usually people use to try to rank it, to try to see like, all right, are there excessive amounts of pop-ups or is it super slow? Or, you know, how long does it take to finish loading before you can interact with the site? All those things are signals to uh for Google or other other search engines that you know, this is a site that I should totally recommend to someone searching for whatever the subject matter is. So again, it's sort of a proxy. It's not, it doesn't, I mean, you know, content's important and and all many other items are, but if you're slow, it's not just hurting you with your consumer or your visitor or what have you. That's not great either. But, you know, it will not be helpful for you know getting an engine to recommend you to your potential customers or visitors or whatever your your uh business is.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

That's really good information to know, yeah, because it's uh SEO, you know, drives the internet and now it's becoming uh GEO generative engine optimization and being able to be picked up by some of these chatbots and incorporated into the answers is huge. So uh making sure that you maximize that that reach um by maximizing obviously things like content, making sure you're you're reliable, you have a good domain authority, but also making sure those sites runs quickly. Um I didn't realize it it affects that uh much of a it affects it uh your ranking um and the ability to be picked up through through some of these chatbots and these engines. So that's really good information to know. Uh and then uh I know that also WordPress plays a big uh runs something like 40% of the internet at this point, right? Uh, which is a big chunk of of your customers. Um and from what I gather, a lot of them are sort of tripping over the same handful of things. Um for WordPress sites specifically, what are like some of the most common hosting-related mistakes that you see businesses make?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Sure. So, you know, when you think of WordPress, it kind of reminds me um the the reach of WordPress, as you said, is is is is vast, right? I mean, it's you know, 40% plus of the internet. It's been around forever, uh, in a positive way. It's mature in um in the software, the patching, the uh security updates, all that sort of stuff. Um, so you know, it's a it's a great uh infrastructure or excuse me, ecosystem to you know create your site in. There are alternatives, but but you know, WordPress is is very popular for all the reasons I just mentioned. Where people get into trouble is that whether it's WordPress or anything else, you absolutely must make sure that your site is up to date, just like you would with your desktop or your laptop or what have you. Because you know, there's always uh security vulnerabilities that are being discovered. And so uh where I see, and my background before I came to the product group was uh the systems group. So my group was there to find when things went wrong. You know, if if we got a phishing complaint because someone had maybe uh a plugin that was insecure, and so someone installed a you know fake Chase bank uh you know situation on the website. So those are when those things happen where like, you know, you installed a you or your designer or somebody installed a plugin. Um maybe uh the plugin was kept up to date, uh, but you know, in the last three years, maybe it's fallen off. Or uh maybe it never really was updated all that often. It was more, you know, good functionality, but didn't really have the backing that uh it needed. Um, and a lot of that just comes with experience. Um, you know, I think the the difference between someone who is an experienced developer uh or designer and someone who's relatively new to it is the person who's new to it is very proud of what they've created, which is great. Um, but the person who has a lot of experience realizes that you're not just planning for today, it's for two years from now. So, you know, where I see that goes awry with WordPress is that um, and again, uh other software, uh uh other software things as well, is that it's gotta be maintained and some attention has to be paid um to to making sure that just things are occasionally uh updated. However, um most hosts, uh and and certainly we do, offer sort of secondary solutions that can kind of help you with that. In the same way the way your machine, your laptop or desktop might have antivirus, uh, we offer something called Monarchs, which allows um a software that will sit on your server and block any attempts to install malware, or if something gets through, it'll immediately uh put a stop to it and you know report back to you, um, hopefully without you having to notice. This is great when um, you know, situations where okay, you know that you have a plugin that's out of date, or you know, you know, that, or maybe you don't. Uh it's sort of insurance in in that realm. Um we also have um, you know, there's also situations where people are using an out-of-date uh version of PHP. So we can install a special hardened version of that that'll help you know you get to the point where you can then upgrade to the right version of PHP for your for your needs. You always want to have backups, obviously. Um, and that's sort of the hallmark of someone who knows uh versus someone who doesn't, that you need clean backups. You need, you know, we offer backups, but you should also have off-server and off-site backups as well. Uh so that if something goes awry, you can restore it uh while you figure out how to how to patch or or or what have you. All of these things, you know, frankly, can and and and do happen. So it's it's not that it's bad if it does. It's not great, but it's not it's not the end of the world. But it's sort of layers of protection that you kind of have to think through. And and that goes back to you know what I said a little bit earlier about risk tolerance. How cleanly and simply can you provide, or we can provide tools for you, but you can use tools to make sure that um to buy yourself time, really. Uh, because you know, no one wants to be called from their client saying that, hey, the site's down. Hopefully you should know. But you know, it's it's the worst feeling, particularly if you know you were paid to create that site. So our job is to help you navigate that with as many options as as possible. And you know, that's sort of the difference between a managed provider or just buying a very cheap, you know, uh VPS that's you know only a couple of dollars or what have you, because they're not really there to provide that um assistance. They're provide they're providing the hosting and and and that's it. But if you're a you know a business, if you're a mature designer, you know that you can't take that risk because you might sour the relationship with your client. And you know. The the thing I think that people are really trying to struggle with, particularly with a uh an agency that's starting out or a freelancer, is that they're worried about their margin. And they have to be, right? I mean, you know, starting a business is not easy. Uh you think you're just having to design sites, but then you realize you have a lead flow. Uh, you need to make sure that you have maintenance agreements and you know, you're you're developing clients as you're taking care of the one you already have. So your margins are going to be tight. And uh in that situation, um, what you should do is see if your host has like an agency partner program, which is something that we just debuted, where we can help you uh with either discounting or if you send clients to us with commissions that will help cut into your margin or even uh help subsidize your main hosting account so that you know that takes a little bit of the edge off for you and doesn't deny you the security and um the assistance that you need, but when thing goes things go awry.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Well, yeah, I mean that there's what the in regards to pricing, there's just there's there's so many uh I mean businesses are are are expensive, they're tough to run. These there's a lot of costs involved. And so dealing with uh, you know, where you spend your money, um it's a tough it's tough to make those decisions. Um and so I think like educating the the client about you know how important it is to invest in hosting and then providing various options to fit all the different kind of budgets um is is the best you you know the best you could do. And hopefully um, I don't know, just just letting the client showing the client that like, hey, if you don't invest appropriately um and don't take kind of the threat seriously, it can really um cause some some issues for your for your company. And I I guess so there's a lot to I can respond to. I think that WordPress is interesting because it uh it's one of those things where it's very accessible. And I think a lot of people know how accessible it is. That's obviously why it's so so widely used. Um but a lot of people who use it forget sort of the hosting underneath of it and and what actually has to do the real work. So uh then you run into a lot of those security issues. And then when you factor in kind of this AI era we're in, you see um the like mythos um being used to discover all these vulnerabilities and bugs. Um, and there's more sort of patches and updates required than ever before, and people really have to be on top of things because uh bad actors are are using some of these tools to to do bad things. And um that's been that's been proven.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

That's really what you're you're sort of paying for. And you know, you you brought up um mythos and some of the other tools. So over the last month, we had um in the industry, uh, there's a a panel that people use that had a security issue. Um that was a zero day. So it was it was very tricky to to deal with because um, you know, that you you tried to preemptively uh handle security issues, and and if nobody knows, then you know it's it's a problem. Um in that situation, right after there were a couple of Linux vulnerabilities that that also came out that that were kind of piggybacking on uh that that sort of situation. In motion, we own our own equipment, um, and we have full control uh of each aspect of the hosting. So in that situation, you know, and we have a teams to help uh handle that deal. We could immediately sort of cut off the entry point for um where the exploits were happening, um, address the issue, figure out the patching situation, if you know, some some of it was in the wild, if it got through. We have hardware standing by to move people and people to migrate them, uh unbeknownst to them, you know, if if if if need be, to make sure that we're handling it uh proactively. And, you know, in that situation, and you know, you you you mentioned mythos, mythos isn't even out to the general public yet. So what we're seeing is the pre-mythos tools being used to, you know, handle this. And I think um that point is gonna get more and more important over the coming months. Um, by the same token, we are also running those tools against ourselves to you know, kind of red team uh this so we're also aware of things that we you know inadvertently or or need to address. Um and you have to ask yourself, again, if you're saving you know $20 on on hosting a month, um, what are you losing in that? Because AI it didn't create the exploits, but showing the exploits or or discovering them is now orders of magnitude faster and and and easier. So, you know, we know that on our side, we have to kind of reconfigure what our response is, which has always been strong, but that the pace is different. So, do we need to reorganize some resources for this? Because, you know, I don't think it's gonna recede anytime soon. So, what can we do proactively to help with that? And then separately, we have um, you know, a labs group that is there for the more innovative, you know, things that that might become a product later, but they also take a look at at some of these things. And, you know, we're looking at what tools can we deploy or give to the customer that might help navigate this, you know, new and exciting world, but also that also means some security issues as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Totally. Yeah, I love the way you phrase it there. It's like if you're saving $20 a month, what are you what are you losing? And is it really worth it? You know, that's kind of what should be underlined, I would say. And I think there's gonna be that that spike of of um security issues as mythos is being is being used behind the scenes and when it comes public, I think it's gonna, it's gonna eventually kind of plateau. Um, hopefully, you know, as the patches roll out and and we'll start using it uh and whatnot. But um, that's just a good reminder too, to like now is the time to really invest in security while things are so unknown and and all these kind of uh these tools are out there and and not even in the public hands, like you were saying. So it is a wild world. And I also read too recently that uh a third of new websites have been AI generated. Um, and that's probably even a conservative number, you know, with with with um kind of the democratization of these tools and how easy it is to do nowadays. And so you think of a lot of this code. I mean, I'm not a programmer, I'm not a developer. I don't I I built my own website, I built a number of websites, and I don't know the underlying code. And I can imagine there's all sorts of um, you know, potential vulnerabilities behind, you know, going on there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

It's it's an exciting time on on that front as well. Um on the product side, we're looking at AI uh website creation. You know, the with AI solutions coming out every week feels like there's a new exciting thing to to play with. My job is to make sure that for our customers, what are we going to deploy that is long-term uh a good solution? Uh and then separately, you know, AI website creation tools are great. And you're seeing it with you know, Claude and Lovable, and and you know, and it's so great when someone who isn't a coder can make something and and actually have it be really cool. You know, we use it for ideation and uh it's just it's it's awesome. Um the trick is, and this is something the our AI labs team is also working on, is well, how do you maintain that? Because again, it kind of goes back to there between an amateur and and someone with more experience is that, you know, it's it's not now that it breaks. It's Christmas Eve or you know, some family event that you'd you know rather not be uh up at 3 a.m. trying to figure out what went wrong. So we're creating right now something called Smart Deploy, which helps um take like a lovable site or or a level-like site and deploy it on our infrastructure, but also help with the you know the management of it. Um the other thing is I think kind of like uh the dot-com era, which is kind of when I came into the workforce, there's a lot of bad ideas along with the good. And trying to determine which ideas are going to be what our customers desire, not just, you know, sort of like fun as a toy for you know a couple of weeks and then everyone moves on to the next thing. That's that's what my department and and my role is. And you know, that's where we're looking. So, you know, when the downside to the AI website creators is that, you know, for the designer developer, that could be a threat. That, you know, where does where do they fit into that world? Um, I think we're learning that you know, the human expertise is very, very helpful in that scenario. Also for the you know, the maintenance reasons that I mentioned. So what we're trying to do is figure out what we can offer that is a part of the designer developer's workflow. You know, what can we do to make uh automation easier on that front? Um, not trying to replace them at all, but try to automate what's tedious or or uh something like that. And then for the agencies, you know, what tools can we do to help them manage their clients better? Uh leveraging AI or or leveraging like, you know, and it could be better feedback between the designer-developer and the and the customer. Um, where can AI help there? Um so that's the sort of path we're on, which is we're not gonna chase down every sort of thing that debuts uh and then quickly evaporates in six months or six weeks. Um, you know, we're really looking to see what we can do to be a creative to the designer-developer experience.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Yeah, it's really that's gotta be a really exciting uh time to be a product developer in this space. I mean, there's so many different tools and things you can you can play around with and test out, but then it's also kind of fun to think about and try to decipher what is gonna be here, like you're saying, you know, for six months or for six plus years. Um, and that's kind of the that's where the the money is, right? Is like what's what's feasible, what's not, what's gonna be absorbed um by some of the bigger players, what's gonna be some of the standout kind of niches that are developed. Um, there's so much to think about. Um I I want to put a pain to that because I definitely want to ask you kind of some some upcoming you know trends you're looking at more than just the the broad AI side of things. Um, but one thing I'm fascinated about is is the customer support. So you mentioned security and how important that is. And when when uh um something breaks, you know, everyone freaks out, they they start reaching out to you and asking for help and support. So you guys, um, you know, a lot of the industry has basically replaced humans with chatbots and self-service portals at this point. But um I think what's interesting about in motion hosting is that you've you've sort of held the line on 24-7 expert human support since your founding, since 2001. Um, why why would you say, why does that still matter in an industry where so much is becoming self-service or automated? And is that approach still something you you lean into, or or do you have plans for automating your customer support department?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

So it's an excellent question. And and uh really it it predates the sort of popularity of AI uh in our industry. And you're seeing kind of two things. Um, one, uh, you know, the the private equity thing that I mentioned, they have to find a way to keep costs down uh because they have you know debt load or just expectations. So, you know, they they they have to either offshore and and kind of have people who are less trained and more scripted. Um, you're seeing sometimes where you call into support and it's an upsell opportunity, so which is the worst if you think about it, you know, 2 a.m. Your site's down, you're calling to get support, and someone's trying to upsell you a solution that may or may not even be germane to your problem. Like it's it's just the worst. Um, then you have you know layers of AI. Um, and some people really do AI very effectively. I mean, it it can be used very effectively, but you gotta have you gotta do it intelligently and not just throw it and see what sticks. You know what I mean? And because uh my experience, probably yours too, with AI chats is that, you know, it could be delightfully wrong or or give you information that's not true, but sounds plausible, but you're still not closer to uh solving the issue. It's also just not who we are. Um, you know, most of the people that I work with, peers uh in this organization have been frontline employees just like I was uh many years ago. And it also comes from Todd and Sneal. That's their ethos. The reason they started this was to help people take something technical and and and make it into their business or part of their life. And when people are stuck, to have people knowledgeable and helpful. So, you know, all of our people are trained uh almost 300 hours before they touch an account or or a contact. Um the average tenure uh we like to keep who we train uh is is about five years, and we regularly see people who have hit their 10, 15 year mark, um, you know, and and have been helping clients the entire time. Um we're leaning into that because I think I think it's gonna become, I think as people realize, and I think the security issue you just you you just talked about is illuminating some of this. Because, you know, when a company gets bought and maybe gets hollowed out, you're not gonna notice when things are going great. But when you absolutely need assistance, you realize there's no there. Um and that's when we stand out. Now we will use AI to help, you know, route calls or route uh contacts like that. But if you need an agent, you get an agent. You get a person, not an AI agent, um, who you know you've you hopefully uh you know is is is can solve your issue and is is is kind and empathetic. Um and then my situation, we've been interviewing customers um over time to you know understand what their concerns are and and talk about the various things. And um the first thing they always talk about uh is support. And not only just like support and in you know, thank you for having it or what have you, but they're effusive about people name-dropping, you know, different agents, you know, that that that work with us. And it's it's kind of amazing because, you know, as I said, like my background with systems, where you you sometimes see where everything goes wrong. It's really gratifying when you see when things go right and and what people appreciate about the people that you've worked with, uh, and and maybe help train and uh you know, think a lot of. So I think it's gonna be what separates us from the other companies out there, particularly as they get rolled up and um you know, and and the service kind of gets more and more degraded. Automation can absolutely be great for the consumer and and the customer, but it can't solve all those problems. And there's nothing more frustrating than getting trapped in a you know a chat goneraye arguing with a a fake digital thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Oh, totally. Yeah, it's it's uh man, I think that's a great ethos to follow. And I mean, I don't know anybody who's who prefers to kind of talk to a machine over a human support agent. Um and I think that there is a really good, I think there's really good use case uh use cases for um using AI and some of these automations to deliver customer support. Like if you have a um, you know, an LLM chatbot that's trained on you know internal documentation that's able to answer prompts and help cater information to the user. Um but I think there's something more fundamental with with the human connection and how when we're where we're stuck, we're lost, we need some help, we having another person to kind of help us through the process, um, even if it's regurgitating the same information that uh chatbot might promote is um is still really impactful. Um and it just doesn't it makes it feel like you're not alone and and stuck to figure it out by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

The thing that doesn't show up when you're looking at the the accounting or the unit economics of of your product or or your support staff uh is that you have the opportunity to delight a customer or to really create a good bond with the customer when you interact with them and it's effective and and and a good thing. You're not looking at um, well, how how expensive was that contact? What would it cost us? Because it doesn't really matter in the long run because that customer will stay with you and feels viscerally good about that interaction and your product in a way that you know a chatbot maybe, maybe can can try to do. But you know, frankly, when you need help, you you need someone who is knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Now I want to um, you know, look forward a little bit. I I kind of tease that like forward-looking vision. We we know customer expectations keep getting higher and higher, and and the folks um running the servers have to kind of stay a couple steps ahead of things. Um, you're the product guy, you're always trying to predict the future where things are going, what's gonna stick, what's not. Um, looking ahead, you know, how do you see web hosting evolving as businesses expect more? They expect faster, more secure, more flexible online infrastructure.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

The fun thing about working in this industry and and being here for so long is that the problems of three years ago are usually not the problems you're dealing with now, right? And and it's probably true of many um IT-related fields and why you probably get into IT, which is that, you know, you you like and you think is cool how technology changes over time and solves problems. Um, you know, and and if it's really forward thinking, it it feels like you've lived in the sci-fi future that you, you know, wanted 20 years ago. Um, so where I've seen hosting change is that uh it's hard to predict what you know the problem will be in in three to five years. I think, you know, in 2022, if you know AI driven or discovered exploits was going to be a problem in 2026, sure, right? I mean, yeah. Um, so I, you know, that the only thing that's that's certain is that uh we will solve problems that are currently a big deal to us, and something else will hatch, you know, unexpectedly. Um and I really want to see, uh, and I was talking to uh one of our security members, you know, we're doing AI discovery of different exploits and and and that sort of deal. What is uh what does AI augmented prevention look like? Um that's something I think that, you know, and that that could take many different roles. It could be a part of our um, you know, malware, it could be a part of our firewall, it could be, you know, different things that that um, you know, where can we use automation uh not on the customer support level, but on, you know, better prevention uh or what have you. Um or you know, are there as as we discover bugs and as as AI sort of understands our code base, can we also address bugs, you know, uh proactively or or in some sort of fashion? We don't in any way want to um not have the coder, but we want the AI to assist the coder because the volume, the AI is already assisting the bad guys. So, like, how do you how do you make sure that you have you know the arrows in your quiver to you know address what's coming at you uh using the benefits that they are as well?

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I imagine a lot of that is is helping the AI understand um more of the context so it can help tackle some of these issues, um, right? And like having it rolling it out to a point where it can, you know, it has access to more information and more maybe moving pieces, um, but doing so in a responsible, like secure fashion.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah, the I'm always amazed. Um, you know, I I think we all probably have had uh, you know, AI when it came out. Again, it was it seemed really cool and then it was kind of a toy. And then, you know, a a couple months later I had an experience where I used it for some sort of purchase, and I was like, oh wow, that that was far more knowledgeable than than I had expected. And it's very it's changed just in the you know in that six-month period. And I think we're seeing that with AI. But you know, again, it's it's the wisdom to know when to use it, uh, or the or or just trial and error of what not to do, um, that I I think really guides how companies should deploy it. Um and you know, I there's a lot of AI backlash lately that's coming out of, you know, well, many different reasons. But um I I think like anything. You can't be lazy when you deploy it. You have to be thoughtful. And I think that's true of anything product related, independent of AI. Um, and then you have to think of what what your counterparty, what the customer will respond using this? You know, will they fe feel like you're avoiding them? Which you see a lot in in you know, a contact center. So, you know, really how do we deploy it where it actually helps the relationship between us and the customer, as opposed to alienating or just saving a buck or what have you? Like, how do you how do you enhance your offerings, not not just uh enhance the balance sheet?

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah, it's interesting because it's kind of the a different um mentality that you know you you see from the the big like hyperscalers, the big the companies that are releasing the the LLMs from the top, like they're they're kind of releasing it like from the pro the standpoint of like, well, let's see what people do with it. You know, we don't really know. Let's let's just kind of see what what people create with it and and whatnot. Um, but you're kind of using some of those large language models to um in a more selected, like designated approach. So I I wanna uh I've got one more question for you before I pick your brain about your your tenure and your industry um experience and what you're you know been doing the last few decades. But um, and that's the competitor question. So I, you know, I know every industry has stuff that's just kind of become accepted practice that, you know, I think if you really look at it, there's it's not actually serving customers. Um, one example I think about is kind of the term unlimited, right? Unlimited bandwidth, unlimited storage, unlimited sites, I don't know, buried buried in the terms of service is where you'll actually see some of the limitations and when you really start getting throttled into oblivion um despite the unlimited term. Um that's accepted practice. There's a lot of examples, but I'm just curious like what's something you've noticed that's accepted in the industry, but not really serving customers. Um and another way to kind of phrase that more broadly speaking is what's something your competitors are getting wrong that you're determined to do differently?

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Yeah, it's um uh the unlimited thing is is an industry standard and it's it's always been um a bit of a thing to deal with. Um because anytime you try to you know change it and and have a limit, even if it's a very large limit, all of a sudden you've taken away something from people. So you're like, well, okay. Um but I I think you know the your larger point is right. I think our competitors are and and and not not everyone. I mean, you know, there are some great companies out there that that you know we all respect and and think they're innovative in the way they they try to solve problems. But I think the more you kind of disrespect the customer by providing a really bad experience, but still pretending it's a good experience, that's the galling part. You know, kind of like the upgrade or upsell thing I mentioned earlier. Um, I can't think of a worse, you know, while you're down, you're gonna try to upsell me something that I like that's that's it's almost criminal. So honestly, the the upsell, um, you know, we we had a long talk about this uh in the last year of you know, just looking at what we do and what we're offering product-wise and and and how we're selling it. And we decided that there would be no upsells in support. That you know, if if you call support, you are there to get assistance. Now, you know, if if if you actually need to upgrade, that's that's different. But honestly, we have always erred on the side of providing more resources than necessary because we don't necessarily want to force you into a situation where you know we're we're just constantly pushing you up the the price ladder. Um, because that's not it's not what we do. Um, and it's not it in the long run, you're not gonna stay with us. I mean, so like if we're you know, we want to grow with you, and if we're providing a a not a not so great experience, that's not gonna happen. Um, so I think you know, the the upsell and the sort of craven, you know, kind of sabotaging the relationship between the company and the customer to get a slight increase in RPU makes no sense in the long run, right? It might be good, and this is where, you know, again, it could be private equity, it could be something else. But if the owners have a need to sell, which in private equity happens fairly often, then they're looking for an exit event. So they're not thinking 10 years down the road, is this customer gonna be with us? They're gonna take the profits as quickly as they can and move it on to the next buyer. That's obviously short-sighted for the health of the business, because you know, eventually that that's gonna just hurt the business, regardless of who the owners are. Um, but also it hurts the industry. I mean, you know, and and then and we're not just seeing it in hosting. I think you're seeing it in all services, um, where slowly things that you loved and cherished uh get worse and worse over time.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, I think that the the method you guys have, let kind of let the customer upsell themselves if they genuinely need the the um you know the additional server space, whatever it might be. And um, and I think having that long-lasting that connection and and having the right, you know, approach to customer support is gonna ultimately reward you with with kind of more profits um in the long run, which is what you know gets the companies in trouble nowadays. They're maximizing profits of uh above um all else and um trying to be kind of more efficient and lean and um not really caring about the customer at the end of the day, they're just looking at the numbers. Um I want to focus again on the conversation on to you now. So you've had a genuinely uh interesting path to this role. So you mentioned you were you've been um at the company for 16 years, right? Um that's really impressive. Um and if my research is correct, so you you started, you started back in 2010 as a tier two system administrator and worked your way up.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Well, briefly as a tier one, we were growing, it was an exciting time to join the company. And and for me, I had left uh New York, I had moved back here temporarily, and then I was gonna move away. Um, and I certainly had not thought that like doing tech support in my hometown was gonna be super exciting uh for that summer, but it ended up being a lot of fun. And um, what was exciting about it is that you know it was a small group, um, you know, maybe 30 total between all the various shifts, and it was nimble. And um, my first experience out of college was a startup um that uh was really exciting and it was kind of mission-driven, and you know, and we were all excited about what we were doing, and um, you know, and then for various reasons, you know, the dot-com world ended around then and it was it was it was sad. Um and then I did some other stuff and freelanced and and uh you know had a had a had a very different career, still tech related, but not not uh in in the startup or or what in Motion does. Um so when I came back here and joined this company and met Dodden Sneal and and the other leaders, uh, but also just you know, uh the other people that I was working with. Um it was it was that same kind, it was almost like being bookended. My career was bookended by two really great experiences that felt startup-like. And, you know, as I said, we're gonna hit 25 years in July. Uh, so not quite a startup, but the people that and the friendships that I've made from that period um are still my peers. Um, you know, colleagues were actually relatively close, you know, because we've kind of we all went through the same uh fits and starts of the company of, you know, different events um and just time together. Uh so that's you know, the the culture of the company, um, which you know that word gets thrown out a lot, but um really does start at the top. And and I credit Todd and Smeal and their sort of um, we're gonna do it right ethos, uh, and try to be helpful and and not be craven. And then, you know, particularly in those years, uh, hosting was just growing very, very quickly because um that was sort of coming out of the real estate uh stuff in 08 and 09, and unemployment was super high. When that happens, people get really creative and they start side gigs or or businesses and they need a website to do it. And and you know, they'll they'll start a store and start selling something they might make as a hobby. It's a creative thing, you know, when when when or people get creative when the economy gets weird. Uh, and it was neat to kind of be a part of that, be a part of that growth, but also be a part of the uh the solution for what they were trying to solve. Um so I, you know, the and it's you know, the 16 years is a little is a long period of time, and my roles have changed a lot over over that arc. Um I've worn many different hats, but you still, when you look at the success of the company and and the people within the company, you know, it's something you're really proud of. Uh in the same way that we want to be proud of our products, you know, that you want to think that at the end of the day, you're doing something good and for yourself, for the customer, for the company. Um, and yeah, it's it's a really great place to work.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Yeah, that that purpose. Yeah, I think that's the kind of ideal kind of career trajectory and place to be in, right? Where you're you're able to, you know, um accomplish a lot. You're experiencing all these different changes that keeps things interesting, seeing what people are coming up with. Um, you know, the like you were talking about earlier, it's like some of these these AI tools and and products and features is like so fun to play with that kind of revitalized um any sort of like maybe burnout people have been facing or whatever. But um, and then but being able to like really connect with your your colleagues and like enjoy a baseball game of the weekends or something, like on top of the the work you guys are doing is that's really meaningful um and and important. One of my questions is like if you could go back to the start of your career, like what's what's one piece of advice you you might give yourself if you could think of what anything.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

That's a fascinating question. I I you know again, I I took a couple of different nonlinear steps to where I am. My background was theater, which is why I moved to New York. Um and then at the time, uh I had done IT on the side, uh, giving uh giving out modem strings for dial-up customers uh when I was home for Christmas or the summer. And then one of my really good friends uh did that job with me and uh was working at the startup and and hired me. And uh he's he's always been fantastic. We worked together for many years. Um I think the thing that uh attracted me to both the startup and also where I am now in a particular product is that kind of like theater, it's mission-driven. And you know, there's like I said, the camaraderie, but you're also all kind of rowing in the same direction. And one way or another, this thing has to launch. So uh regardless of whether it's IT or theater. Um, but you know, and and you're you're hoping that what you created is responded to well. And um, but I think going back to your your question, um, I think anyone who's getting out of school, and I know you know there's a lot of uh anxiety about uh entry-level jobs with with um kids coming out of college, and I've I know people whose kids are are in that position. I think you kind of have to, you know, that that that period of your life is is fraught with anxiety anyway. But I think looking back on it, you realize that it all did kind of work out. And, you know, it wasn't easy. There were times when, you know, the dot-com era ended, there was way too many unemployed IT people. So, like, you know, there was a lot of uh working second jobs and all that kind of stuff, but it all actually led to the next job or the next opportunity. And I think if you learn, and you have to learn this over time, I think, that as long as you you know you can depend on yourself and you can see it through, um, it will most likely work out. And what you thought would be a detour or a side side quest is actually gonna rope you into the main thing because everything, every experience like that you learn. And you know, when you when you for me coming into product, it actually is the culmination of all my experience uh in the system side or the data center side or or you know theater or what have you. Um and you just kind of have to be loose because I don't know outside of you know someone who has a very prescribed career, you know, most people take uh you know different detours uh along the way, and and it's a positive, even though it feels negative at the time.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Absolutely man, that's that's a good one. That's a really good one. Um, I think that's spot on. And I I think there's so much, yeah, there's just so much um uncertainty right now. And and uh my mind was you're mentioning the students coming out of like all the commencement speeches right now, and and we've seen some of the headlines of of you know, some of the anytime you mention AI, they start students and but even other faculty will start booing. Um, but uh one that stood out to me was um you know Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple. He reminded everyone that we all already have AI, we all have AI, actual intelligence. And we gotta, we gotta remember that and tap into it and let that lead the way. Don't, you know, get lost in this kind of uh artificial intelligence. Use the real intelligence, the actual intelligence you have, um, and just start tinkering, start playing, start um, you know, creating and see what happens. Uh, and just and and also kind of do the actual work. I was reading an article this morning about um how like CEOs are kind of getting into this like AI psychosis where they're so kind of obsessed with what AI can do, they kind of get lost um and lose. They get kind of abstract, they don't look at the actual work that's required to do the job. So you really it takes time. It takes, you know, you got to put your head down and actually grind away at the real kind of manual labor, so to speak, even if it's in this automation AI age.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

You know, it's it's the last mile thing, I think. Um, and again, going back to like an experienced person versus um someone who's relatively new, like precision matters at some point, right? And and that's the difference between, you know, someone kind of mid-career or or mid-role um then someone new. And I I think we, you know, AI gets it so close, but then you have no idea if it's if it's not. And I know that'll get better. But you know, it's gotta, it's gotta help. Um, it can't just be looking like it's helping, right? It's it's actually gotta help. And and that's true, you know, that's why we're you know, I it's not that I don't like AI, I really do. Um, there are many things that it helps me with, uh, you know, that that I find tedious, and I love automating something tedious, but um, you know, you really have to do quality control on yourself or on it. Um, and I think that's where people are kind of missing the mark. Uh, and again, I know some companies are probably doing it better than others, uh, and really, you know, iterating on on that. Um, but I I think, you know, and probably the the kids coming out of school, and I know they they probably used it in school, um, you really want to make sure that you're not losing something by using it, but also that irrespective of whether you use AR or not, it's your quality. So did you take the appropriate steps to make sure that you're right?

SPEAKER_00 59:50

100%. Yep. Um, I I'm curious along uh if curious if there's a a piece of a medium, uh a resource that um you've relied on that's really um helped you execute uh at your job, or maybe just uh affected you in your personal life. Like is there a book, a podcast, some kind of resources had a that's had a major impact on you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

I feel like it's always kind of a moving target. There are there are podcasts that I listen to uh pretty religiously that that um are just so insightful. Um or or or even books. Business books, you know, can always be a little bit of a self-help for money kind of uh deal where like you kind of skim it or or or read it. Maybe it's really compelling, but a lot of them are are are a little um silly. Um Radical Candor uh was a book that I I I learned a lot from oh it was a good lesson in how to be a leader, how to give feedback. Um I think it can be over misinterpreted, but um, in terms of you know, what happens if you are not respectful enough of your teammate or employee or direct report or what have you, where you didn't give the right feedback um because it was maybe uncomfortable or what have you. I I I really think that that, you know, it it kind of over it talks about the dangers of that. Um, and you know, I I think about that a lot when something is socially awkward but kind of needs to be said because and and you know, flip it around. I I don't want disingenuous feedback either. I mean, maybe I do politely at the time, but you know, I think long term, you never wanna feel like you didn't know your performance wasn't strong. You you'd rather know and then and then fix it as painful as that might be. Um, in terms of um podcasts that I listened to, like acquired, uh, which is a very long form, it's uh it's funny because it it mixes sort of like company history, product, strategy. It's engaging. I mean, the the the two guys are great, but um it'll talk about things like um, you know, Costco is a great example of like, you know, with our hot dogs or the rotisserie, like stuff you can't that what it does is an emotional connection. It's not it's not a uh an accountant's dream, right? Like it's it's not it doesn't get factored in that way, but it matters so much to to people. Um there's a guy on many podcasts right now, uh Rory Sutherland, who uh works in advertising in in England, uh behavioral economist, but also talks about kind of the alchemy and the magic that products need to have to be successful and what separates that from um just a also ramp product that I think he really gets right and he's also very funny. Um you know, th those those sort of things I think uh I I'm not sure if I have one through line uh influence like that, but you know, in in all of our lives, uh the only constant is change. And so different things that um I like history anyway, that can kind of show how problems were solved before, anecdotally, um, you know, in an effective way that that kind of reframes how maybe you've been thinking about something. That stuff always really gets to me, and it's something I get excited about.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

I love that. Yeah, there's never just one piece. That's why it's a tough question to to tackle. But um, those those resources you gave, those are those are great. Those are going on my list as well. Rory Sutherland, uh, the acquired podcast, Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal, and then Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Um that's okay, those are those are great. I mean, at the last, I got a section off four hours to listen to the next acquired podcast, but I'll find time. I'll find time. Um, well, this has been so great. Thank you for all the time. I know we've kind of way over time, um, uh, but I appreciate all the insights you share with us. Um, I I I want to give you one opportunity to to tell listeners um, you know, where they can point listeners in the right direction, where they can go to get in contact with you, your team, maybe learn more about in motion hosting. What's the best place to go?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Yeah, come to inmotionhosting.com. Uh our there's a page with all of our photos on it. You can contact us that way. I'm also on LinkedIn, uh Trey Faeson. Uh, and I I welcome any any uh comments or feedback. Um, you know, it's it's it's a great company to work for. It's uh I think we're we're we're doing great for our customers, and and that's a really satisfying thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

Awesome. Well, Trey Fayson, uh, thank you so much for uh this great conversation. I really appreciate again your time uh and breaking this all down for us. Um there's a lot of happening. So uh keeping keeping it um you know uh all understandable for for myself and the the wider audience is is much appreciated. So thanks again.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

Well, thank you, Bo. I I really enjoyed this, actually. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Well, thank you all for listening to the SourceForge podcast. I'm your host, Bo Hamilton. Make sure to subscribe to stay up to date with all of our upcoming B2B software related podcasts. I will talk to you in the next one.